First, I’d like to apologize for the lack of tones and inks on this page. I spent too much time on working on a submission for the Big Funny (also, Quantum Leap is on Hulu) and had to rush to complete this.
I’d also like to state that I’m pro-DIY. I love making, selling, and trading minicomics. That said, I tend to make cheap, Xeroxed, fold-and-staple minis. I’m not as much on board the experimental, highest possible quality minicomic artifact. I’m glad that people make these things, as variety is what makes minicomics great, but I don’t want to go down that road.
We talk about this topic at length on the Art and Story Alive podcast.
It just seems like its either:
1) a way of going: “ME! ME! LOOK AT ME! PICK MY BOOK OUT OF THE CROWD!”
2) a true passion by the creator to do something special for each book, or
3) A way for the creator to differentiate each book they do (if nowhere else but their mind)–but this would more fall into a category of having a different color paper stock for each cover than to get all silk-screeny and such.
I guess no matter what, I DO NOT think this falls into the 90′s variant cover model. That was about crassness and trying to sell multiple copies of one book.
What DIYers are doing is making their one book beautiful so not only will they be extry-proud of their efforts, but heck maybe someone will even buy ONE copy.
I’m gunna go listen to this weeks A&$A! right now and see where my opinion falls….
Oh–great work on the JAVILAND podcast, Ryan.
I was practically screaming in my head all the things I wanted to say that I felt NEEDED to be said on the topic to a potential writer/collaborator who has little to no experience actually making comics.
And while no one said exactly what I was thinking, you came the closest with “Know what you want to do” which I would qualify even furthur with “Actually have a script to start with. It CAN be revised, but at least be able to prove you’re more that just an idea-person”.
In retrospect, it really isn’t a good comparison. I think the minimalist in me was thinking that all this focus on packaging is no different than all the focus on packaging in the 90′s.
But you’re right, they weren’t trying to make books special in the 90′s. They were just trying to sell as many copies as possible through whatever gimmick they could muster.
I guess I wasn’t thinking about the desire to make something extra special. I’m glad that I made this comic so people can tell me I’m off base.
Thanks for the comments on the Javiland podcast! My main regret was that I didn’t bring up Dirk Manning’s wonderful Write or Wrong column in Newsarama.
I can only speak from my experience as a reader/buyer of comics or what have you, but I’d have to side with the idea that there’s a slightly deeper connection made with a product that has some sort of a handmade feel to it beyond xerox, cutting and stapling. There are numerous levels with which a reader can “connect” with and artist/author when it comes to their work, most of which the artist in in direct control of.
For instance, there’s the connection everyone has access to, the aesthetic, tone and perceived meaning in the work itself which happens in the mind of the reader/audience. This is probably the most important aspect of the work and it’s the foundation of the one-sided conversation between artist and audience. As a reader it can be frustrating to get cut=off (so to speak) at this level as if there are any lingering questions about meaning or intent, there are no answers. Similarly, there’s no outlet to give thanks, praise, criticism, etc. Granted a lot of this isn’t as important to the artist as the audience.
Another level to connect is granted by the availability of the artist. Websites, blogs, twitter accounts, providing and responding to e-mail and letters, commentary, etc., these all invite the reader to a deeper connection with the art in question. This can have a dramatic impact on the appreciation of the work and provides context and subtext. Regardless of the validity of this sort of audience/artist relationship, it adds a value to the work from the point of view of the audience.
In the case of hand-made silk screened covers, etc., there is another level added to the experience, a tangible connection to the artist and the work that is akin to meeting and artist in person. For instance, I got a chance to meet Jerzy and Mark at this past year’s WW Chicago, and it was great to shake their hands, exhibit next to them and share a couple days talking comics and cons, and what ever. I picked up a bunch of their books there, and I’ll always have the memories of meeting them associated with those comics. Similarly, my experience in selling copies of my mini magazine both in person at cons and over the internet has resorted in vastly difference experiences in terms of a connection with the buyer. Based on the feedback I’ve received from both sorts of sales, the experience is much more satisfying for the audience when they can meet me in person and have a conversation about the content of the magazine.
To me in lieu of being able to meet everyone interested in picking up a comic or what ever, the next best thing is to provide a tangible reminder that the piece of work purchased by the audience came directly from the artist. That the artist took the time to craft it individually. I know hand cut, folded, and stapled minis should have this feel, and they do, but I’d argue not to the extent of one with a more crafted feel.
I don’t think it compares whatsoever – in fact they are the antithesis of each other. Where one WAS a gimmick to sell multiple copies, hand-mades is a love of the creator’s craft. As everyone wants to sell their wares, the hand-makers care more about their craft than selling. Which is why they spend SO much time on them. And which is why to the layman buyer, their asking price might seem a little high. But in actuality, a lot of hand-makers low-ball themselves just so they CAN sell a little something.
I might be a little biased, though. I do needlepoint, which is extremely time-consuming. But how much I sell them for is pretty much sweat shop income… so good thing I make a good living doing tattoos, haha.
First off, I appreciate your questions in the comic. I had also once equated the ‘art object’ mini comic (yarn stitching, glitter, fancy paper, etc) with being similar to 90s era holofoil covers: the publisher is trying to make his book stand out (granted, the holofoil covers from mainstream publishers were ALSO trying to sell multiple copies). Obviously, there’s a huge, aesthetic difference between a print run of 50,000 Gold Holofoil covers of X-MEN vs. a hand crafted mini comic.
I’ve seen and bought mini comics with some pretty cool ‘hand made’ innovations. Like the one that was cut like an old Nintendo game cartridge!
So I have no problem with folks making them, or me buying them! But for myself (and like you, I have to express how I feel about it personally) I don’t have any desire to make an ‘art object’ comic. I like to think that my comic book, the art & story and the characters, are the ‘art’. My storytelling aesthetics, as well as my graphic/layout design choices and even publishing/marketing choices, that’s what I want the reader/buyer to be exposed to.
Now, when I want to create an ‘art object’ for people to buy, I’ll paint, or create my Live Art. I love painting in acrylic on canvas. That, to me, creates a ‘hand made’ piece of individual art someone can enjoy and purchase. The actual drawing or painting will be a unique thing I created. Other than a comic I’ve made with individual sketch covers, it’s to the offset/digital printers, or xerox machines, for my books!
I love books, (comics, art coffee table books, photo books, etc) that are offset printed with high production values. With rich variety of paper stocks and beautifully designed dust-jackets etc. But I never grew up with comics that were hand stitched or silk-screened covers so I don’t have the inspiration in me to produce those either. Jack Kirby’s comics, or Steve Ditko’s, Gilbert Hernandez, Jason, Sad Sack, Mad Magazine, et al, look perfect printed on a press with two, big, shiny staples holding all the content’s together. So I like to think the little books I scrawl with my shaky hands can be made the same way.
Anyway Ryan, thanks for continually expressing your voice in your comics!
Javier
I am going to argue that Super quality paper & cover does not enhance the reader’s experience as much as quality art & writing does. So instead of spending time & money on paper & the cover do more stuff regarding art & writing! Kris Straub’s Indie Comic mini-comic was the most amateur/poor paper & cover quality comic I’ve seen. But I treasure it because the content is soooo good.
If you are talking about the value of a comic, I always keep in mind that value is a very vague term and it is subject to ones time resources. I may find it valuable to eat a nice dinner and be content at spending the extra time and resources in preparing it where someone else would find the same sort of value by plopping down five dollars on a meal from McDs.
In the realm of comics, the trading of comics, especially minis, happens quite frequently at conventions. There have been times where I’ve traded one of the few minis that I’ve made for a mini that really has no “value” to me whatsoever – then again perhaps I am picky. It could either be that the story makes no sense, that I don’t care for the art, that it isn’t presented well, or what have you.
This leads me to the 90s gimmick comics. There was little to no content outside from the shiny cover. I mean, for crying out loud, some people left them in their polybags! WTF? Now, if someone wants to silk screen an image onto a cover, I’m fine with that. It doesn’t make the comic any better. However it may catch my eye for a second and actually look at it rather than pass by a table with little to no regard for the creator sitting behind it.
Now, this may come comment may have come off as crass, a little antisepitc, and be more business oriented, but mind you, I do understand that most creators care about the comics they are creating. They put the effort in creating the story, paying for the materials, and stapling the comics together, but to me ot comes down to the comic speaking to me.
If it doesn’t jump out at me with an interesting title, art, cover, merchandising, or if I have already heard about the comic, I will likely see it as having no “value” to me at that point in time. That does not mean that I am right or wrong, or that the comic doesn’t have any value, it just means at that point in time I’m not willing to spend my resources on procuring it.
Man,
Looks like I’ve struck a nerve with this comic. The weird thing is I agree with everybody’s comments so far.
You have to admit, that Eclipso comic with the plastic purple gem glued to the cover was pretty sweet, though.
Man. I missed out on that.
I’ve now listened to the ART AND STORY ALIVE! from whence all this sprung from, and I will have to conceed the point that, YES, actually putting time and effort into your package is probably going to appeal more to a buyer than just going to Kinkos and deciding this issues cover will be the marble-looking cardstock.
HOWEVER–this all goes back to the original point (of the A&SA! podcast) which is PRICE.
Price is the problem.
If you do a wonderful job lazer printing and stamping and silkscreening the cover and then hand stitching the spine, do you deserve 5 or 6 dollars for the book?
SURE!
Will people pay that?
SURE!
…just not as many as those who would for $3.
Does this mean you should undercut your price and loose loose loose on this deal?
NO!
So whats the solution?
That I don’t know.
I am now convinced the days of Kinkos copies on plain paper with a white or colored sheet of paper cover is at an end–thats pretty much the equivalent of a webcomic–and webcomics are not only seen by more people, but they are FREE! (not counting whatever it is you pay for internet access, that is).
However, going to KInkos (making sure to get a “good” machine) or using your home printer are gunna be pretty comparable price-wise, and in BOTH places you can use HIGH QUALITY LAZER PAPER (which you can bring yourself, but in most Kinkos now they will either already have it sitting out, or will give it to you for free by asking) , which will bump up the quality of the book.
And instead of a “color” cover (red cardstock for instance) actually making a COLOR cover isn’t as cost prohibative as it once was (50 cents I believe. Just make sure of you’re doing double-sided to make the inside cover on the black and white machine FIRST).
The point is you could still crank out a 24 page book with a color cover for somewhere around $2.00.
You’ll still eat it if you sell it to a store with a 3 or 4 dollar price tag, but isnt the idea to be part of the NEW MEDIA and sell it directly from your website anyway?
I don’t if the Internet is really threatening to end cheapo minis. Cheapo minis are still good for trades and impulse buys. Plus, there are a lot of indie friendly readers who are against reading comics on the Internet, especially long form stories. But yeah, I think I will put a little more production into my next batch of minis. I’m still on the fence when it comes to going with LAZER paper, but I will definitely add a little more color to the mix.
The same tension lives on in the zine distributing community as well. Its can interesting debate. Thanks for the thought provoking comic, Ryan.
Ryan, your guest strip is up on the Daily Cross Hatch. Nice timing for a comic about this topic….